Discussion:
Interview with an American soldier who served in Iraq
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it's no joke,Tuco.It's a rope
2003-11-18 09:21:10 UTC
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http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00105.htm


Part 1 in a 5 part series
Interviews by Jay Shaft
Coalition For Free Thought In Media
12th October 2003
I had the unique opportunity to interview five US military servicemen
who just got back from Iraq, or in the case of two men, corresponded
with their wives so that I could ask questions of these soldiers by
mail. When the two I corresponded with came back just last week, I was
able to complete the interviews I started several months ago with some
new details on how the war is actually going.

I was shocked and angered when I found out how many of the service men
hate being in Iraq and want nothing to do with rebuilding and policing
the devastated nation. From the conversations I had, many soldiers
never wanted to go over to Iraq and fight, and the ones who had were
now convinced of the awful crime that had been committed against Iraq
and our own troops. I was told very few soldiers now believe in
staying in Iraq, or want to stay in the country and serve any more
days.

The following interview was with an enlisted man, but someone very
high up in the enlisted ranks, with over 20 years of military service.
I have promised not to reveal his identity for reasons that he has a
family and has been told not to speak to journalists. He told me the
Army had put a gag order on him while he was home, and told him they
would give him twenty years in prison if he spoke out in any manner
against the US or the government.

I took several weeks to finish this interview because of not being
able to safely be seen with this individual out of his fears of being
caught speaking out.

He asked me to call him USA in all the transcripts of these
interviews. I have followed his wishes and tried to write what he said
in the manner it was said so as not to lose any impact. At times the
interview was very rough and the grammar is not perfect, but I tried
to write this in his voice so that he can tell the world how bad it is
in Iraq. I truly want you to feel what he has experienced in some way
if possible.

CFTM-- "How are you today? Resting I hope?"

USA-- "Can't sleep for sh..t and I have horrible nightmares when I do
sleep. I might be lucky to catch an hour at a time before the
nightmares wake me up. I slept easier in the combat then now that I'm
away from there. Most awful place I've ever been or served duty and I
didn't want to leave my guys. That was the hardest part was leaving
the guys I had been leading around and trying to keep out of trouble
and alive."

CFTM-- "Did you see a lot of your buddies get killed? How did it
affect you?"

USA-- "How the hell do you think it affected me? I saw over 30 of the
men I had to keep safe die, and over 100 get wounded and not come
back. I still don't know if some of the wounded men made it or not. I
was never told before I came back home."

CFTM-- "So it really was awful and as bad as some returning troops
have claimed?"

USA-- "It was like a long trip to hell that you knew you might return
from. Of course it is as bad as the soldiers say it is. Hell it's even
worse if the truth has to come out. It's a constant fu..ing nightmare
trying to figure out where the guerillas are going to hit, how to keep
the civilians calm, and also getting enough water and food to eat.
That is one thing the media never really told the Americans about, how
bad it was when our convoys weren't getting through. We had to go to
some Iraqi people and trade socks and underwear for some food and a
little water."

CFTM-- "You really did get that desperate because I saw it in the
foreign media that the Iraqi civilians had stepped in and fed a whole
bunch of troops that had been days without food."

USA-- -"Yeah, that ain't no joke about getting help from the civilians
right after the invasion. We had a pretty good laugh about that and
how the army owed them some money for reimbursement. We would not have
starved probably, but when we got the food from the people it made
sure we could still operate as a functioning unit. It was a near thing
that several guys almost died of dehydration because we ran out of
clean water for a few days."

CFTM-- "Just keep going, I want to hear more about the hardships the
military and Bush made you go through. I want the American people to
know what a nightmare this war has become and what it's doing to our
service men over there."

USA-- "Okay, well I can bitch about the problems like food being short
and water going bad, but I want to tell people about how bad the
attacks on US and coalition forces have gotten in the last month. In
the last two weeks I was there we were attacked at least 20 times a
day if you count all the shots we heard from random sniper or
opportunity attacks. We were losing at least five men a day to
injuries and there was at least one of our unit killed every twenty
four hours."

CFTM-- -"So you were getting one a day killed and at least five
injured? Did you know many of the guys killed?"

USA-- -"That's a real dumb fu..ing question to ask me. You know what
my rank is, of course I knew them, I was the head NCO for years in our
unit. I knew most of the guys who died and I held a lot of hands as
they were dying. You tell me that's not gonna to give you nightmares!"

"I had one guy tell me all he wanted was to see his little daughter;
she was born three days after the war started. He died in the sand
holding my hand and crying because his daughter would never know him.
Tell me that's fu..ing right. Where was George Bush when this kid was
gasping for air and spitting his blood on foreign soil?"

CFTM-- -"I talked to you about this the other day. Do you think George
Bush is the wrong man to order troops into battle when he ducked it
himself?"

USA-- -"That asshole went AWOL and never showed up for duty and then
he has the nerve to take us into two different wars that will be going
on for years. I do not believe he should be president of this country,
he's a complete idiot and he's controlled by madmen with a drive for
only profits and getting oil."

CFTM-- -"I just have to get this straight for the public, you are well
educated are you not? I mean you have had years of leadership training
and schools right? You sound very well informed and aware of the
current lies and manipulations, which I have not found in some other
soldiers."

USA-- -"I have a four year degree in the economics field and I am not
a soldier all the time. I am Reservist who just keeps getting caught
on long duty assignments. Believe it or not I read authors like Noam
Chomsky, Gore Vidal, and Jim Hightower, and went through three copies
of ‘Stupid White Men' by Michael Moore while I was over there. I let
people read parts of Mike's book and they were irate that Bush had
screwed us so hard. I had parts of ‘Best Democracy Money Can Buy'
mailed to me because I knew if I had the whole book it would get
stolen in a heartbeat."

CFTM-- -"So you might be quite a bit more aware and well informed
about the real reasons for the war that others did not know. I don't
know of many line soldiers reading Greg Palast or Noam Chomsky."

USA-- -"I guess you're right and that might be why I am trying to
speak out and let the Americans know that they are sending us to be
slaughtered. If you don't mind I am going to cut through all the
niceties and get down to why I am going against every oath I took and
giving you this interview. I am doing it for the guys still over there
and for the ones who are going. If I'm not careful I'll end up back
there for another six months."

CFTM-- -"Alright tell me what it was really like and don't skip the
gory details. I want people to be shocked and offended enough to
realize why you spoke out and what it is doing to our military by
sending them over there with blind flag waving and cheers of false
victory"

USA-- -"Well the first thing I would like to thank Bush, Cheney,
Rumsfeld, and Congress for is that nice huge cut they made to Veterans
Benefits as soon as the war started. I am in the Reserves after years
of active duty and now I cannot get PTSD counseling or many medical
benefits I used to take for granted. I knew I would have the benefits
because I was laying my life down for my country. Now my benefits are
cut by around 2/3 and I have to go to either group therapy or pay for
a private counselor out of my own pocket. What happens when someone
like me has been through enormous battle stress and combat fatigue and
then comes home to no counseling?"

"I'll tell you what is going to happen, he will either kill himself or
take a bunch of people with him. Some of the guys coming back are
going to have gone through the worst time of their lives with their
buddies dying and getting hurt, and then they'll find out they got
screwed out of any counseling. It is the greatest disservice America
is committing against soldiers who fought for this country and may
come back wounded or horribly scarred. Medical services, school aid to
dependents, school aid for the vets, all slashed to the bare bones;
mental health and drug and alcohol counseling are being eliminated or
the waiting lists will be years long for whatever services manage to
survive."

"That is one thing the American people still have not really caught on
to is the fact that while they were screaming out ‘Support Our Troops'
the current regime makers were fu..ing the military and veterans out
of almost every social program and non essential service that would
make life easier."

"Bush really fu..ked us while we were gone. We found out about after
being in the middle of heavy fighting for several weeks. It was one of
the first things I read in Stars and Stripes, and I thought it was a
joke because it was just to hard to believe Congress and our leaders
would screw us that bad while we were fighting and dying."

CFTM-- -"Glad you brought that up about counseling because I wasn't
even aware of it. Are you alright to talk about some of the civilian
casualties you witnessed and some of the horrifying images you told me
about when we first started talking?"

USA-- -"I want to talk about some of the children I saw killed for no
reason, maybe it will wake someone up who doesn't believe it was
happening, or that it was very bad. I can tell you I will never forget
the screams of the wounded or orphaned kids, or the wailing of the
parents who lost their kids. The Iraqis and most Muslims have a very
vocal way of mourning the dead by lamenting and wailing for the dead.
There is no mistaking a mother or father crying out in pain for the
loss of a child. They don't cry like that unless there has been a
death. Sometimes after a bombing raid or an artillery attack you could
here hundreds of people wiling and weeping."

"I have several grown children with grand kids about the age of most
of the dead children I saw in Iraq. I also have several kids who are
about half grown and I saw a lot of Iraqi children that age wandering
around in charge of three or four little ones because their parents
were dead."

"Let me tell you about the cluster bomb raid we saw wipe out a whole
bunch of little kids. It looked like they had already lost their
parents and were trying to salvage food from a destroyed Iraqi convoy
by the side of the road we were on. The kids were way off to the side
about half a mile away by then when we got the word that the Iraqi
column was going to be hit with cluster bombs and we had to clear the
area. We got on the radio and tried to get the air strike stopped but
we were told it was too late to get it stopped."

"We could see the body parts flying up into the air after the bombs
hit. It was terrible and we could not do a damn thing but watch it
happen and scream into the radio at the dumb sh.t pilot that was
dropping the bombs. After the strike was over we went to see if there
were any survivors and all we found was bits and pieces of little kids
and here and there an arm or leg you could still identify."

CFTM-- -"Pretty rough stuff to have to see. Did that kind of thing
happen a lot?"

USA-- -"More than you can imagine until you've seen it over and over
again. Man I don't want to talk about this sh.t anymore. It doesn't
help to talk about it because it just makes me think about it again. I
can't even get any counseling without having to pay for it."

"Let all those people who support our troops in on that nice surprise
that Bush gave us. That's how much we really mean to Bush, the
Department of Defense and all those other stupid assholes who keep
saying how good we're doing over there. Let those patriotic morons go
and fight and die for our country. Let them leave their families
behind for months and maybe come back home in a box. I'll be the first
one to salute them or honor them when they die."

"It's just like Nam was in the beginning. I was twelve when my dad got
back and I'll never forget the pain and agony he lived with the rest
of his life. Its kind of what I feel now, I suppose. I never thought I
would ever serve in some stuff that's so much like Nam it isn't funny.
Now I really see what my pop went through, and if I could I would go
back in the past a few months, I would go AWOL or turn conscientious
objector on them, but it's too late for that now."

"I damn sure will not go back over there even if they throw me in
Leavenworth. I never could understand how a guy could be a
conscientious objector until what I just went through. I wish more
guys would stand up and tell Bush and the Pentagon they will not fight
their war for oil. We should not have to die for these rich bastards
profits and enrichment."

CFTM-- -"Thank you for taking the risk and talking to me. I know there
will be other soldiers who can't speak out who will thank you for
having the courage."

USA-- -"It isn't about courage it's a matter of what's right. This war
is killing the poor or middle class American men and women who went in
the armed forces to have college or some kind of better future. You
don't see the rich kids joining up or any Senator's kid dying in Iraq.
It's us little guys who are dying over there or getting disabled for
life. Where are the leaders that are supposed to be looking out for
the little man? They are elected to look after out interests not the
interests of Cheney and Halliburton, or any of the rest of the fat
cats piling up the profits while the blood of our soldiers flows over
their hands."

CFTM-- -"Anything else you want to say to America? Any final thoughts
or words?"

USA-- -"Yeah! Wake up America! Your sons and daughters are dying for
nothing! This war is not about freedom or stopping terrorism. Bring us
home now! We are dying for oil and corporate greed!"


*********
p***@hotmail.com
2003-11-20 21:20:14 UTC
Permalink
***@netscape.net (it's no joke,Tuco.It's a rope) wrote in message news:<***@posting.google.com>...
[ot crap]

Why the fuck would anybody pay attention to you?
You can't even find an on topic news group to post in?
Socks
Greg Pavlov
2003-11-20 23:44:27 UTC
Permalink
On 20 Nov 2003 13:20:14 -0800, ***@hotmail.com wrote:

>***@netscape.net (it's no joke,Tuco.It's a rope) wrote in message news:<***@posting.google.com>...
>[ot crap]
>
>Why the [] would anybody pay attention to you?



Good question. Why do you ?
Wolfgang
2003-11-21 01:22:34 UTC
Permalink
"Greg Pavlov" <***@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:***@news.cis.dfn.de...
> On 20 Nov 2003 13:20:14 -0800, ***@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >***@netscape.net (it's no joke,Tuco.It's a rope) wrote in
message news:<***@posting.google.com>...
> >[ot crap]
> >
> >Why the [] would anybody pay attention to you?
>
>
>
> Good question. Why do you ?

Ah, an easy question. I believe that's my cue.

The answer is really quite simple. Señor Sticky Hose has discovered through
long observation that Mikey rarely responds to anyone after leaving his scat
trail all over usenet. Thus, he believes, it is safe to spew forth some
miserable excuse for a half-witted retort secure in the expectation that no
one will call him on it and, as a consequence, win himself one more night of
a damp bedtime of rubbing his peepee while casting himself in the never
changing role of clever rogue in shining armor.

Needless to say, this effrontery would be unseemly, if not downright
scandalous, were it not for the fact that its nom de plume makes its role in
life clear......and one can hardly hold a tool, however repulsive in its own
right, responsible for it wielder's transgressions.

Wolfgang
Greg Pavlov
2003-11-21 02:17:42 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:22:34 -0600, "Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu>
wrote:

>
>> Good question. Why do you ?
>
>Ah, an easy question. I believe that's my cue.

And I am glad you picked up on it:: I would rather not
have done it myself and the outcome would have been
much less satisfying all around.
p***@hotmail.com
2003-11-21 19:22:21 UTC
Permalink
"Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in message news:<bpjpi5$1pkgai$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Needless to say, this effrontery would be unseemly, if not downright
> scandalous, were it not for the fact that its nom de plume makes its role in
> life clear......and one can hardly hold a tool, however repulsive in its own
> right, responsible for it wielder's transgressions.

We judge others by ourselves.
Socks
Greg Pavlov
2003-11-21 19:55:47 UTC
Permalink
On 21 Nov 2003 11:22:21 -0800, ***@hotmail.com wrote:

>
>We judge others by ourselves.
>Socks

And when we have no respect for what we see, either externally
or internally, we attack from the safety of pseudonyms.
Wolfgang
2003-11-21 20:46:11 UTC
Permalink
<***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@posting.google.com...

> We judge others by ourselves.
> Socks

I can hardly express how gratifying it is to be held in such high esteem.

Wolfgang
Scott Seidman
2003-11-21 20:55:59 UTC
Permalink
***@hotmail.com wrote in news:c7976c46.0311211122.7bdad586
@posting.google.com:

> We judge others by ourselves.
>

That's the most profound tautology I've heard all day. Thanks

Scott
Wolfgang
2003-11-21 21:30:15 UTC
Permalink
"Scott Seidman" <***@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:***@130.133.1.4...
> ***@hotmail.com wrote in news:c7976c46.0311211122.7bdad586
> @posting.google.com:
>
> > We judge others by ourselves.
> >
>
> That's the most profound tautology I've heard all day. Thanks
>
> Scott

A crushing left to the jaw......a tap on the point of the chin......followed
by a devastating kick in the nether regions!

Damn, I love this place! :)

Wolfgang
Scott Seidman
2003-11-21 21:51:49 UTC
Permalink
"Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in
news:bpm0ji$1plhgj$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de:

>
> "Scott Seidman" <***@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:***@130.133.1.4...
>> ***@hotmail.com wrote in news:c7976c46.0311211122.7bdad586
>> @posting.google.com:
>>
>> > We judge others by ourselves.
>> >
>>
>> That's the most profound tautology I've heard all day. Thanks
>>
>> Scott
>
> A crushing left to the jaw......a tap on the point of the
> chin......followed by a devastating kick in the nether regions!
>
> Damn, I love this place! :)
>
> Wolfgang
>
>
>

Do you remember the Peter Seller's movie "Being There"? This is an "... and
all grows well in the garden" moment!

Scott
Wolfgang
2003-11-21 22:08:33 UTC
Permalink
"Scott Seidman" <***@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:***@130.133.1.4...
> "Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in
> news:bpm0ji$1plhgj$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> >
> > "Scott Seidman" <***@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:***@130.133.1.4...
> >> ***@hotmail.com wrote in news:c7976c46.0311211122.7bdad586
> >> @posting.google.com:
> >>
> >> > We judge others by ourselves.
> >> >
> >>
> >> That's the most profound tautology I've heard all day. Thanks
> >>
> >> Scott
> >
> > A crushing left to the jaw......a tap on the point of the
> > chin......followed by a devastating kick in the nether regions!
> >
> > Damn, I love this place! :)
> >
> > Wolfgang
> >
> >
> >
>
> Do you remember the Peter Seller's movie "Being There"?

Happened to catch it again on late night T.V. a couple of months ago. Also
heard very recently that there is a new biography of Sellers out there
somewhere. Ever see Steve Allen's "Meeting of Minds"? Sellers and Kosinski
would have been a pair of fascinating (if somewhat less than uplifting) pair
of dinner guests, eh? :)


> This is an "... and all grows well in the garden" moment!

Life is replete with such moments. No surprise....life began in a garden.

Wolfgang
rw
2003-11-21 22:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Scott Seidman wrote:
>
> Do you remember the Peter Seller's movie "Being There"? This is an "... and
> all grows well in the garden" moment!

"Being There" isn't primarily a "Peter Sellers" movie. It's a Jerzy
Kosinski novel. Let's give credit where it's due. Why does an actor in a
movie usurp the credit for an original work of art, no matter how well
cast the derivative work was?

Kosinski (a suicide) seems largely forgotten, but he was an imaginative,
original novelist. The Painted Bird is his best, IMO.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
Wolfgang
2003-11-21 22:46:06 UTC
Permalink
"rw" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:xgwvb.10019$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Scott Seidman wrote:
> >
> > Do you remember the Peter Seller's movie "Being There"? This is an "...
and
> > all grows well in the garden" moment!
>
> "Being There" isn't primarily a "Peter Sellers" movie. It's a Jerzy
> Kosinski novel. Let's give credit where it's due. Why does an actor in a
> movie usurp the credit for an original work of art, no matter how well
> cast the derivative work was?
>
> Kosinski (a suicide) seems largely forgotten, but he was an imaginative,
> original novelist. The Painted Bird is his best, IMO.

good God, you are a pompous ass! In the first place, no one, including
Scott, suggested that "Being There" is "primarily" anything. Second, there
is nothing in Scott's post that gives a clue as to whether or not he was
aware of the book's temporal precedence but, given that his contributions
here over the years bear a distinct aura of a passable education, it is
altogether reasonable to suppose that he WAS. Third, Sellers usurped
nothing. Fourth, no literate person anywhere has any reason to suppose that
Sellers usurped anything. Fifth, Kosinski is anything but forgotten; tens
of millions of people around the world are very well aware of his work, and
millions are quite familiar with a broad outline of the circumstances of his
life and death......not EVERYONE lives in fucking Idaho, for chrissakes!
Sixth, if you MUST try to impress people by stating something that everyone
else already knows, at least try to frame you're banal observations in a
manner that doesn't offend every literate person in the world. Seventh,
given all of the above, please try to explain why the fuck anyone should
care about your opinion of what might be Kosinski's best work.

Wolfgang
wanna know what keeps me warm? :)
rw
2003-11-22 00:46:02 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:
>
> good God, you are a pompous ass!

It's a little amusiung to be hated by someone who is so ineffectual.
That's one reason I pull your string now and then.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
Willi
2003-11-23 18:25:24 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:

> "rw" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:xgwvb.10019$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

>>Kosinski (a suicide) seems largely forgotten, but he was an imaginative,
>>original novelist. The Painted Bird is his best, IMO.
>
>
> good God, you are a pompous ass!


Kettle - black?

Willi
***@frii.com
Wolfgang
2003-11-23 18:52:43 UTC
Permalink
"Willi" <***@frii.com> wrote in message
news:3fc0fb8e$0$201$***@news.frii.net...
>
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
>
> > "rw" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:xgwvb.10019$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> >>Kosinski (a suicide) seems largely forgotten, but he was an imaginative,
> >>original novelist. The Painted Bird is his best, IMO.
> >
> >
> > good God, you are a pompous ass!
>
>
> Kettle - black?
>
> Willi
> ***@frii.com

Well now, THERE'S a wildly unpredictable and cogent observation.

Wolfgang
Willi
2003-11-23 19:31:08 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:
> "Willi" <***@frii.com> wrote in message
> news:3fc0fb8e$0$201$***@news.frii.net...
>
>>
>>Wolfgang wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"rw" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>news:xgwvb.10019$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>>Kosinski (a suicide) seems largely forgotten, but he was an imaginative,
>>>>original novelist. The Painted Bird is his best, IMO.
>>>
>>>
>>>good God, you are a pompous ass!
>>
>>
>>Kettle - black?
>>
>>Willi
>>***@frii.com
>
>
> Well now, THERE'S a wildly unpredictable and cogent observation.
>
> Wolfgang

Glad you liked it. About as predictable as one of your responses to RW.
I always felt that posting something that was understandable to ones
given audience much more important than trying to come up with some
"cogent observation" that was deflective, obscure and clothed in
pedantic language.

But, to each their own, I guess.

Willi
***@frii.com
Wolfgang
2003-11-23 20:00:02 UTC
Permalink
"Willi" <***@frii.com> wrote in message
news:3fc10af6$0$194$***@news.frii.net...
>
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
> > "Willi" <***@frii.com> wrote in message
> > news:3fc0fb8e$0$201$***@news.frii.net...
> >
> >>
> >>Wolfgang wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"rw" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:xgwvb.10019$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >>>>Kosinski (a suicide) seems largely forgotten, but he was an
imaginative,
> >>>>original novelist. The Painted Bird is his best, IMO.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>good God, you are a pompous ass!
> >>
> >>
> >>Kettle - black?
> >>
> >>Willi
> >>***@frii.com
> >
> >
> > Well now, THERE'S a wildly unpredictable and cogent observation.
> >
> > Wolfgang
>
> Glad you liked it.

I didn't. I guess that's what I get for presenting an argument clothed in
pedantic language that my audience cannot understand

> About as predictable as one of your responses to RW.

If pointing out glaring factual errors motivated by an ever present need to
sneer at someone.....ANYONE....and supported by abused logic, misperception,
and deliberate misconstrual is predictable behavior, then I plead guilty.

> I always felt that posting something that was understandable to ones
> given audience much more important than trying to come up with some
> "cogent observation" that was deflective, obscure and clothed in
> pedantic language.

Hm.....if that's what you've always felt, then it certainly clears up the
matter of why so few other thoughts worthy of note manage to force their way
into such a busy brain. As to comprehensibility, I remain perplexed about
what motivates so many people to respond so frequently, and often at great
length, to things that they neither understand nor, in the cases of some
folks at least, even bother to read. Moreover, while one can hardly
disagree with the central tenet of the proposition that writing things one's
audience can understand is a good thing, endless repetitions of self-evident
truths like "Grass is green" will lose both they're value and they're
interest to a more or less regular audience......sooner or later. Now, I
realize that some of the above may seem a bit harsh.....or at least
indifferent....but I really do sympathize with your plight. If you will be
so kind as to point out exactly which parts of my response to Steve you are
having trouble with, I'll see what I can do to clarify for you.

> But, to each their own, I guess.

Well, that's a good guess; you've got that much going for you, anyway.

Wolfgang
Willi
2003-11-23 21:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:


>>About as predictable as one of your responses to RW.
>
>
> If pointing out glaring factual errors motivated by an ever present need to
> sneer at someone.....ANYONE....and supported by abused logic, misperception,
> and deliberate misconstrual is predictable behavior, then I plead guilty.

Glad you agree!


>
> Hm.....if that's what you've always felt, then it certainly clears up the
> matter of why so few other thoughts worthy of note manage to force their way
> into such a busy brain. As to comprehensibility, I remain perplexed about
> what motivates so many people to respond so frequently, and often at great
> length, to things that they neither understand nor, in the cases of some
> folks at least, even bother to read. Moreover, while one can hardly
> disagree with the central tenet of the proposition that writing things one's
> audience can understand is a good thing, endless repetitions of self-evident
> truths like "Grass is green" will lose both they're value and they're
> interest to a more or less regular audience......sooner or later.


"and there'll be rabbits.......LOTS of rabbits!"


Now, I
> realize that some of the above may seem a bit harsh.....or at least
> indifferent....but I really do sympathize with your plight.

Well, that's sweet!


> If you will be
> so kind as to point out exactly which parts of my response to Steve you are
> having trouble with, I'll see what I can do to clarify for you.


Your predictable "I hate Steve" posts are only too clear and it seems to
me that they perfectly fit your "endless repetitions of self-evident
truths like "Grass is green".

My critiques of you when you jump on someone for what seems to me to be
a stupid reason, might fit that too, but when you call someone else
pompous ............


Willi
***@frii.com
Wolfgang
2003-11-23 21:56:07 UTC
Permalink
"Willi" <***@frii.com> wrote in message
news:3fc123f2$0$198$***@news.frii.net...
>
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
>
>
> >>About as predictable as one of your responses to RW.
> >
> >
> > If pointing out glaring factual errors motivated by an ever present need
to
> > sneer at someone.....ANYONE....and supported by abused logic,
misperception,
> > and deliberate misconstrual is predictable behavior, then I plead
guilty.
>
> Glad you agree!

Is that oblique? It LOOKS oblique. Is it.....huh?

> > Hm.....if that's what you've always felt, then it certainly clears up
the
> > matter of why so few other thoughts worthy of note manage to force their
way
> > into such a busy brain. As to comprehensibility, I remain perplexed
about
> > what motivates so many people to respond so frequently, and often at
great
> > length, to things that they neither understand nor, in the cases of some
> > folks at least, even bother to read. Moreover, while one can hardly
> > disagree with the central tenet of the proposition that writing things
one's
> > audience can understand is a good thing, endless repetitions of
self-evident
> > truths like "Grass is green" will lose both they're value and they're
> > interest to a more or less regular audience......sooner or later.
>
>
> "and there'll be rabbits.......LOTS of rabbits!"

I'm not at all sure what you mean by that. It doesn't look like pedantic
language......does this mean that it can't be deflective or obscure, or is
the one necessary to the others?

> Now, I
> > realize that some of the above may seem a bit harsh.....or at least
> > indifferent....but I really do sympathize with your plight.
>
> Well, that's sweet!

Not at all. Simple humanity.

> > If you will be
> > so kind as to point out exactly which parts of my response to Steve you
are
> > having trouble with, I'll see what I can do to clarify for you.
>
>
> Your predictable "I hate Steve" posts are only too clear and it seems to
> me that they perfectly fit your "endless repetitions of self-evident
> truths like "Grass is green".

If you can find me a good reason....or even a mediocre one for that
matter....for hating a self-immolating hapless putz like Barnard, I'd be
happy to conform to your little fantasy. As it is, he provides enough
amusement that even a mild distaste would be hard to maintain.....where else
are you gonna find someone so EAGER to tapdance on his dick for the
entertainment of so many, and at such a low, low price?

> My critiques of you when you jump on someone for what seems to me to be
> a stupid reason, might fit that too,

Despite a lurking suspicion that you view every occasion in which I "jump
on" someone as resulting from a stupid reason, I remember quite
clearly....and always will....your assertion some time ago that when you
jump on me it is the result of a natural tendency to root for the underdog.
Given that you find my epistolary efforts incomprehensible, I'm not sure
what leads you to such a high opinion of me in these matters, but I
appreciate the compliment nevertheless. Stevie, on the other hand, while he
certainly SHOULD be grateful for the support, would probably be a bit miffed
if he understood what you are saying. :)

> but when you call someone else
> pompous ............

what?

Wolfgang
Willi
2003-11-23 22:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:


>>
>>"and there'll be rabbits.......LOTS of rabbits!"
>
>
> I'm not at all sure what you mean by that. It doesn't look like pedantic
> language......does this mean that it can't be deflective or obscure, or is
> the one necessary to the others?


I was just quoting you from a past post I thought you'd remember. I was
just giving an example of how you insult people in an underhanded manner
by hiding the insult in language or reference that you think the
"insultee" wouldn't follow.



>
>>>If you will be
>>>so kind as to point out exactly which parts of my response to Steve you
>
> are
>
>>>having trouble with, I'll see what I can do to clarify for you.
>>
>>
>>Your predictable "I hate Steve" posts are only too clear and it seems to
>>me that they perfectly fit your "endless repetitions of self-evident
>>truths like "Grass is green".
>
>
> If you can find me a good reason....


I don't know what your reason is but it seems to me that labeling those
posts as "I hate Steve" posts, pretty well describes the content.



>>My critiques of you when you jump on someone for what seems to me to be
>>a stupid reason, might fit that too,
>
>
> Despite a lurking suspicion that you view every occasion in which I "jump
> on" someone as resulting from a stupid reason,

That's not true. You sometimes "jump" on people for what I think is a
good reason. However, I do often find the way you attempt to insult
people offensive. IE - the "rabbit" quote above. At least, Ken's "Fuck
You" comments are straight forward and honest.



>I remember quite
> clearly....and always will....your assertion some time ago that when you
> jump on me it is the result of a natural tendency to root for the underdog.


That's SOMETIMES the case.



> Given that you find my epistolary efforts incomprehensible, I'm not sure
> what leads you to such a high opinion of me in these matters, but I
> appreciate the compliment nevertheless.


Weird that you'd take what I wrote as a compliment. I think you need to
look to yourself to find the one that has "such a high opinion of" you.


>Stevie, on the other hand, while he
> certainly SHOULD be grateful for the support, would probably be a bit miffed
> if he understood what you are saying. :)


It's clear YOU don't understanding what I'm trying to say.


>but when you call someone else
>>pompous ............
>
>
> what?

Here we are right where we started!!!

Kettle - Black

Willi
***@frii.com
Wolfgang
2003-11-23 23:30:50 UTC
Permalink
"Willi" <***@frii.com> wrote in message
news:3fc13732$0$195$***@news.frii.net...
>
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
>
>
> >>
> >>"and there'll be rabbits.......LOTS of rabbits!"
> >
> >
> > I'm not at all sure what you mean by that. It doesn't look like
pedantic
> > language......does this mean that it can't be deflective or obscure, or
is
> > the one necessary to the others?
>
>
> I was just quoting you from a past post I thought you'd remember. I was
> just giving an example of how you insult people in an underhanded manner
> by hiding the insult in language or reference that you think the
> "insultee" wouldn't follow.

And you think that I think that whoever that was directed at wouldn't
recognize a reference to Steinbeck's classic? Well, it's possible, I
suppose. But I'd be better able to assess that likelihood if I knew who the
victim was. You don't happen to recall, do you? And if you think THAT was
underhanded, then what I had assumed to be a bit of a tongue in cheek claim
to having difficulty in understanding what I write takes on a whole new
perspective. Looks to me like it was probably a pretty straightforward
suggestion that whoever it was directed at is dim-witted....unless, of
course, it was said in jest, something I would expect anyone to whom I might
have directed it in jest to understand....but then......you probably don't
understand what I'm saying here, do you?

> >>>If you will be
> >>>so kind as to point out exactly which parts of my response to Steve you
> >
> > are
> >
> >>>having trouble with, I'll see what I can do to clarify for you.
> >>
> >>
> >>Your predictable "I hate Steve" posts are only too clear and it seems to
> >>me that they perfectly fit your "endless repetitions of self-evident
> >>truths like "Grass is green".
> >
> >
> > If you can find me a good reason....
>
>
> I don't know what your reason is but it seems to me that labeling those
> posts as "I hate Steve" posts, pretty well describes the content.

We've been over this matter of what things "seem" like enough by now that I
would have thought even you would begin to understand how dangerous it is to
get involved in these charming little discussions on that basis alone. I
mean, it SEEMS as if you are incapable of learning that they go
nowhere.....inevitably.....as contests with only one side represented MUST.
In the meantime, I can think of a few people who have expressed what SEEMS
to be a dislike for Stevie, but none....apart, perhaps, for himself who has
displayed anything that could reasonably be supposed to be hatred. Your
insistence that he is a mere plaything in my hands might SEEM to some people
like hatred, but I think that a mild contempt describes it adequately. And,
for what it's worth, it does seem like you're right.

> >>My critiques of you when you jump on someone for what seems to me to be
> >>a stupid reason, might fit that too,
> >
> >
> > Despite a lurking suspicion that you view every occasion in which I
"jump
> > on" someone as resulting from a stupid reason,
>
> That's not true. You sometimes "jump" on people for what I think is a
> good reason.

Well gosh, you never SAID so! :(

> However, I do often find the way you attempt to insult
> people offensive. IE - the "rabbit" quote above.

Well, sometimes it's MEANT to be offensive. The trick, it seems, is in
distinguishing between those times when it is meant to be and those that
only SEEM so. On the other hand, unless the offending comments are directed
at YOU specifically, they are not meant to offend you......that's just one
of life's little bonuses. :)

> At least, Ken's "Fuck
> You" comments are straight forward and honest.

Straightforward, I won't argue with.....well, at least not when those
comments are offerred honestly. The problem, once again, is that sometimes
such comment are offerred in jest, meaning that they are sometimes anything
BUT straightforward and honest, in which case the deception is deplorable
and cowardly.....um.....well.....or humorous and friendly.....mmmm......well
shit, I dunno. Somehow, it all seems so much simpler until you get ahold of
it.

> >I remember quite
> > clearly....and always will....your assertion some time ago that when you
> > jump on me it is the result of a natural tendency to root for the
underdog.
>
>
> That's SOMETIMES the case.

So it seems.

> > Given that you find my epistolary efforts incomprehensible, I'm not sure
> > what leads you to such a high opinion of me in these matters, but I
> > appreciate the compliment nevertheless.
>
>
> Weird that you'd take what I wrote as a compliment.


Weird that you seem to understand what I was saying. Weird that you should
think I took what you said as a compliment. Things aren't always what they
seem........but then, you probably already knew that, didn't you?

> I think you need to look to yourself to find the one that has
> "such a high opinion of" you.

You know, Willi, this is beginning to look a bit ludicrous. I think you
should either give up pretending that you don't understand what I'm saying
or give up pretending that you do. Doing both at the same time is simply
not working for you.

> >Stevie, on the other hand, while he
> > certainly SHOULD be grateful for the support, would probably be a bit
miffed
> > if he understood what you are saying. :)
>
>
> It's clear YOU don't understanding what I'm trying to say.

Well, it certainly SEEMS clear......but.......

> >but when you call someone else
> >>pompous ............
> >
> >
> > what?
>
> Here we are right where we started!!!
> Kettle - Black

And you thought this was going......where, exactly?

Wolfgang
rw
2003-11-24 00:08:58 UTC
Permalink
It would be, perhaps, flattering that two people were arguing about me,
if it weren't so pointless. Leave poor Wolfgang alone, Willi. He's just
a bitter, angry little man who is disappointed with his station in life,
which he knows is far beneath what his überintellect entitles him.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 00:10:52 UTC
Permalink
"rw" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:u_bwb.12685$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> It would be, perhaps, flattering that two people were arguing about me,
> if it weren't so pointless. Leave poor Wolfgang alone, Willi. He's just
> a bitter, angry little man who is disappointed with his station in life,
> which he knows is far beneath what his überintellect entitles him.

Like fuckin' clockwork! :)

By the way...........wanna know what keeps me warm?

Wolfgang
rw
2003-11-24 00:26:21 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:
>
> By the way...........wanna know what keeps me warm?

I already know -- pissing in your pants.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
David Snedeker
2003-11-24 00:38:30 UTC
Permalink
"Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in message
news:bprij4$1qe9pb$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> By the way...........wanna know what keeps me warm?

Composted rat shit?

Dave
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 00:58:53 UTC
Permalink
"David Snedeker" <***@bainbridge.net> wrote in message
news:bprju6$b0e$***@216.39.143.100...
>
> "Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in message
> news:bprij4$1qe9pb$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > By the way...........wanna know what keeps me warm?
>
> Composted rat shit?
>
> Dave

Nope, that ain't it. Wanna know what keeps me warm?

Wolfgang
Guyz-N-Flyz
2003-11-24 01:05:30 UTC
Permalink
"Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in message
news:bprl7d$1rpt4p$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Nope, that ain't it. Wanna know what keeps me warm?
>
> Wolfgang

Just for the record: I wasn't, isn't, and will never be me!

Op --Ok, if we were trapped in a -50° freeze, I MIGHT share my body heat,
but even that's doubtful,--
Willi
2003-11-24 01:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:

> "David Snedeker" <***@bainbridge.net> wrote in message
> news:bprju6$b0e$***@216.39.143.100...
>
>>"Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in message
>>news:bprij4$1qe9pb$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>
>>>By the way...........wanna know what keeps me warm?
>>
>>Composted rat shit?
>>
>>Dave
>
>
> Nope, that ain't it. Wanna know what keeps me warm?


You keep asking that question and no one seems interested. Maybe this is
one of the "endless repetitions" you referred to that "will lose both
they're (sic) value and they're (sic) interest to a more or less regular
audience......sooner or later."?

Willi
***@frii.com
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 01:52:04 UTC
Permalink
"Willi" <***@frii.com> wrote in message
news:3fc15f82$0$194$***@news.frii.net...
>
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
>
> > "David Snedeker" <***@bainbridge.net> wrote in message
> > news:bprju6$b0e$***@216.39.143.100...
> >
> >>"Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in message
> >>news:bprij4$1qe9pb$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >>
> >>>By the way...........wanna know what keeps me warm?
> >>
> >>Composted rat shit?
> >>
> >>Dave
> >
> >
> > Nope, that ain't it. Wanna know what keeps me warm?
>
>
> You keep asking that question and no one seems interested.

Well, yes, it does SEEM that way. I would counsel patience........things,
as the bard noted so ably, are not always what they seem.

> Maybe this is
> one of the "endless repetitions" you referred to

Once again, if I thought it would do you any good, I would refer you to the
original where, if you were capable of understanding oblique references
clothed in pedantic language, you would discover that the "endless
repetitions" you noted referred, in turn, to self-evident truths. As the
question I posed IS a question, it can hardly qualify as a self-evident
truth. But maybe......just maybe.....things are not as they seem, and it
is, in fact, not the question you were referring to, but rather the answer
to that question that is self-evident. This is plausible, I admit. But if
this is indeed the case, then it seems that you could make your case quickly
and easily by simply stating the answer to the question. Be advised though,
that others have tried to do that very thing......and failed. It may LOOK
easy, but things aren't always what they seem.

> that "will lose both
> they're (sic) value and they're (sic) interest to a more or less regular
> audience......sooner or later."?

I thought youd like that. I'd have bet a shiny new nickel on it.

Wolfgang
who, it must admittéd, may havé doné that véry thing. :)
p.s. wanna know what keeps me warm?
Tim J.
2003-11-24 15:44:14 UTC
Permalink
"Wolfgang" wrote...
<snip>
> p.s. wanna know what keeps me warm?

As I started work this morning, I found myself unable to concentrate on anything
except the question, "What keeps Wolfgang warm?" My first thoughts were rather
ugly, but then I deduced that it could be just a scientific question - you know,
like the kind one finds in the answer books for kids that ask things like "why
is the sky blue?" and "why are there rainbows?"

After hours and hours of concentration on this issue, another thought occurred:
The man is simply asking a question. Hell, why continue to drain my resources
worrying about what keeps Wolfgang warm when I can just answer the freakin'
question?

Now I happen to know for a fact that many of you have been worrying over the
same question. Judging from the myriad emails I get from people off line asking
things like "Why is Ken so mean to me?" , "Does Frank really fall down that
much?", "Is Stan as geeky in person as online?", "Are you as handsome and svelte
as you are nice?" and "How many Mercedes does Wayno buy in a year?", hundreds
(perhaps thousands) of you WANT to ask the question but are embarrassed to come
forth. So for all the little people out there:

Wolfgang, yes, I really must know. What keeps you warm?
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 17:14:41 UTC
Permalink
"Tim J." <***@comcast.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:tNednXbBieDMul-iRVn-***@crocker.com...
>

> Wolfgang, yes, I really must know. What keeps you warm?

Damn, I thought you'd NEVER ask!

All the hundreds or thousands of readers of ROFF come here for reasons
as varied as they are themselves, and yet all of them (with the
probable exception of the incomparable twit who goes by the name of
Muskie) have at least one thing in common......an interest in fly
fishing. In a similar vein, the contributors to the group....that is,
all those who write and post messages....do so for a presumably large
array of reasons, but they too have at least one thing in
common.....the expectation that someone will read what they took the
time and trouble to write. Of course, given the sheer numbers of
readers, it is nearly certain that someone will indeed read any given
individual post. However, unless someone responds, one can never be
absolutely certain.

What keeps me warm is the simple fact that I am blessed by being free
of that gnawing uncertainty. I know for an absolute fact that EVERY
word I write here will be read by at least one other individual. I
know that the first thing this person does upon logging on to ROFF is
to check to see whether I have left anything for his delectation. If
he is on the road somewhere for a day, the first thing he will do on
arriving at home is to fire up the computer and see what I have left
for him in the interim. If he is out in the boonies for a week, he
will check for my messages as soon as he gets home....without stopping
long enough to do so much as kick the dog on the way to the computer.
If his piece of Apple crap dies on him, he will hie him to the library
to log on and get his fix.

It is an embarrassment of riches for someone who has never had the
temerity to ask....or even hope....for such a benison. You can't buy
that kind of loyalty and devotion.

Oh, and his charming habit of periodically denying that he reads
ANYTHING that I write just makes the whole damned thing that much more
warm and fuzzy. :)

Wolfgang
Tim J.
2003-11-24 21:08:04 UTC
Permalink
"Wolfgang" wrote...
> "Tim J." wrote...
>
> > Wolfgang, yes, I really must know. What keeps you warm?
>
> Damn, I thought you'd NEVER ask!
>
> All the hundreds or thousands of readers of ROFF come here for reasons
> as varied as they are themselves, and yet all of them (with the
> probable exception of the incomparable twit who goes by the name of
> Muskie) have at least one thing in common......an interest in fly
> fishing. In a similar vein, the contributors to the group....that is,
> all those who write and post messages....do so for a presumably large
> array of reasons, but they too have at least one thing in
> common.....the expectation that someone will read what they took the
> time and trouble to write. Of course, given the sheer numbers of
> readers, it is nearly certain that someone will indeed read any given
> individual post. However, unless someone responds, one can never be
> absolutely certain.
>
> What keeps me warm is the simple fact that I am blessed by being free
> of that gnawing uncertainty. I know for an absolute fact that EVERY
> word I write here will be read by at least one other individual. I
> know that the first thing this person does upon logging on to ROFF is
> to check to see whether I have left anything for his delectation. If
> he is on the road somewhere for a day, the first thing he will do on
> arriving at home is to fire up the computer and see what I have left
> for him in the interim. If he is out in the boonies for a week, he
> will check for my messages as soon as he gets home....without stopping
> long enough to do so much as kick the dog on the way to the computer.
> If his piece of Apple crap dies on him, he will hie him to the library
> to log on and get his fix.
>
> It is an embarrassment of riches for someone who has never had the
> temerity to ask....or even hope....for such a benison. You can't buy
> that kind of loyalty and devotion.
>
> Oh, and his charming habit of periodically denying that he reads
> ANYTHING that I write just makes the whole damned thing that much more
> warm and fuzzy. :)

That's it? That's the reason I've been losing sleep the past few days? Hell, I
KNEW all that already. The fact that you and rw have a thing for each other
hardly qualifies as breaking news. I was sorta hoping there were gonna be girls
or barnyard animals (or both) involved. :(
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj
Ken Fortenberry
2003-11-24 21:24:57 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:
> ...
> Oh, and his charming habit of periodically denying that he reads
> ANYTHING that I write just makes the whole damned thing that much more
> warm and fuzzy. :)

You get the warm and fuzzies because the putz reads your bombast ?
If it was me I'd just as soon get the warm and fuzzies by pissing
in my pajama pants.

--
Ken Fortenberry
Guyz-N-Flyz
2003-11-24 21:49:28 UTC
Permalink
> You get the warm and fuzzies because the putz reads your bombast ?
> If it was me I'd just as soon get the warm and fuzzies by pissing
> in my pajama pants.
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry

Note to self: If Ken shows-up for a visit, put plastic cover on guest bed!

Op --Nothin' personal, but I MIGHT have another guest one day.--
Jeff Taylor
2003-11-24 22:19:28 UTC
Permalink
"Guyz-N-Flyz" <***@gwbush.com> wrote in message
news:i2vwb.547$***@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> > You get the warm and fuzzies because the putz reads your bombast ?
> > If it was me I'd just as soon get the warm and fuzzies by pissing
> > in my pajama pants.
> >
> > --
> > Ken Fortenberry
>
> Note to self: If Ken shows-up for a visit, put plastic cover on guest
bed!
>
> Op --Nothin' personal, but I MIGHT have another guest one day.--
>

splork!
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 22:20:32 UTC
Permalink
"Ken Fortenberry" <***@ameritech.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:JGuwb.5292$***@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> > ...
> > Oh, and his charming habit of periodically denying that he reads
> > ANYTHING that I write just makes the whole damned thing that much more
> > warm and fuzzy. :)
>
> You get the warm and fuzzies because the putz reads your bombast ?

Well, it's not so much that he just READS it.....it's more the fact that he
depends on it.....that it's the very air he breaths....his raison d'etre, as
it were. I guess I should have amplified a bit....it is really the fact of
being NEEDED that desperately that keeps me warm. Of course, it ain't all
just meatloaf and bruschetta......I mean this sort of dependence imbues one
with an awesome responsibility. What would happen if some accident should
befall my typing finger.....who would take up the ensign and thus ensure
Stevie's continued survival and equanimity? For that matter, who could? He
won't just automatically switch his adoration to just ANYONE, you know.

> If it was me I'd just as soon get the warm and fuzzies by pissing
> in my pajama pants.

Sure, EVERYBODY wants to take the easy way! Nobody appreciates how hard I
work for Stevie.....and for all of ROFF, if the truth be known. :(

Wolfgang
sometimes.....not often.....but sometimes, it hardly seems like it's worth
the trouble.
slenon
2003-11-24 22:48:29 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang:
>.....who would take up the ensign

Naval affairs and psychology in one post. Perhaps the ensign would rather
be left alone.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar
***@tampabay.rr.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm
Willi
2003-11-25 01:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Ken Fortenberry wrote:

> Wolfgang wrote:
>
>> ... Oh, and his charming habit of periodically denying that he reads
>> ANYTHING that I write just makes the whole damned thing that much more
>> warm and fuzzy. :)
>
>
> You get the warm and fuzzies because the putz reads your bombast ?
> If it was me I'd just as soon get the warm and fuzzies by pissing
> in my pajama pants.
>

The perverse things that bring happiness to some people!

Knock yourself out, Wolfie!

Somehow this strikes me as just too sad.

Willi
***@frii.com
Francis Reid
2003-11-25 12:22:48 UTC
Permalink
> "Wolfgang" wrote...
> <snip>
> > p.s. wanna know what keeps me warm?

I'd "ratter" not know.
Frank Reid
Tom Littleton
2003-11-24 02:20:16 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang asks:

>Wanna know what keeps me warm?

Reid's Moose and Barley Stew, or perhaps the mere thought of returning to
Pennsylvania in May? I was going to guess something which had to do with Op,
but given his disclaimer and all..........
Tom
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 03:06:22 UTC
Permalink
"Tom Littleton" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
news:***@mb-m18.aol.com...
> Wolfgang asks:
>
> >Wanna know what keeps me warm?
>
> Reid's Moose and Barley Stew, or perhaps the mere thought of returning to
> Pennsylvania in May? I was going to guess something which had to do with
Op,
> but given his disclaimer and all..........
> Tom

Nope, that ain't it. Oh, a bit of Moose and Squirrel stew will do well
enough to take off the chill of trophy hunting, and Opie's affection (if not
his embrace.....about which, uncharacteristically, I would know NOTHING!)
radiates a glow of its own, but what I'm talking about is what KEEPS me
warm. :)

Wolfgang
Guyz-N-Flyz
2003-11-24 21:57:37 UTC
Permalink
"Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in message
news:bprsqu$1rrr30$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de...


> and Opie's affection (if not
> his embrace.....about which, uncharacteristically, I would know NOTHING!)
> radiates a glow of its own,

> Wolfgang

Aren't you the SWEET ONE!

Op --Wolfie thinks I'm radiant! Lucky me....?--
Wayne Harrison
2003-11-24 22:14:51 UTC
Permalink
"Guyz-N-Flyz" <***@gwbush.com> wrote in message
news:W9vwb.581$***@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in message
> news:bprsqu$1rrr30$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> > and Opie's affection (if not
> > his embrace.....about which, uncharacteristically, I would know
NOTHING!)
> > radiates a glow of its own,
>
> > Wolfgang
>
> Aren't you the SWEET ONE!
>
> Op --Wolfie thinks I'm radiant! Lucky me....?--

oh, i have thought you to be gorgeous from the first moment i laid eyes
upon you...

yfitp
wayno (and, to think; there are people around here who call me a sarcastic,
cynical old drunk...)
>
>
Guyz-N-Flyz
2003-11-24 22:39:10 UTC
Permalink
"Wayne Harrison" <***@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:vpvwb.9304$***@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> oh, i have thought you to be gorgeous from the first moment i laid
eyes
> upon you...
>

I'll take a CHERRY RED Benz, thank you :~^)

> yfitp
> wayno (and, to think; there are people around here who call me a
sarcastic,
> cynical old drunk...)

E-mail me their names, and they'll never call again!

Op --lookin' for lub in all the wrong places--
walt winter
2003-11-25 09:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Guyz-N-Flyz wrote:
>
>
> Aren't you the SWEET ONE!
>
> Op --Wolfie thinks I'm radiant! Lucky me....?--
>
>

op, i think wolf misspelt "radiated."

hth's....wally
Greg Pavlov
2003-11-24 15:03:55 UTC
Permalink
On 24 Nov 2003 02:20:16 GMT, ***@aol.com (Tom Littleton) wrote:

>I was going to guess something which had to do with Op,
>but given his disclaimer and all..........


... and that meat thermometer in Wolfgang's pocket and all...
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 22:25:45 UTC
Permalink
"Greg Pavlov" <***@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:***@news.cis.dfn.de...
> On 24 Nov 2003 02:20:16 GMT, ***@aol.com (Tom Littleton) wrote:
>
> >I was going to guess something which had to do with Op,
> >but given his disclaimer and all..........
>
>
> ... and that meat thermometer in Wolfgang's pocket and all...

That little baby has saved me from many an embarrassing intimacy! :)

Wolfgang
who, displaying characteristic delicacy, will refrain from making any crude
jokes about meat and poking.
Ken Fortenberry
2003-11-24 02:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:
>
> ... Wanna know what keeps me warm?

I don't really give a rat's arse what it is that holds
the fire in the belly of your abode, but I'm guessin'
it's either a Lennox or a Trane.

--
Ken Fortenberry
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 03:07:51 UTC
Permalink
"Ken Fortenberry" <***@ameritech.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:%jewb.5162$***@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> Wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > ... Wanna know what keeps me warm?
>
> I don't really give a rat's arse what it is that holds
> the fire in the belly of your abode, but I'm guessin'
> it's either a Lennox or a Trane.

Nope, mere technological fixes for when the great heat engine fails......and
it hasn't yet.....and never will, while breath remains :)

Wolfgang
George Cleveland
2003-11-24 03:43:07 UTC
Permalink
Adenosine triphosphate On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:07:51 -0600, "Wolfgang"
<***@mcw.edu> wrote:

>
>"Ken Fortenberry" <***@ameritech.net.invalid> wrote in message
>news:%jewb.5162$***@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
>> Wolfgang wrote:
>> >
>> > ... Wanna know what keeps me warm?
>>
>> I don't really give a rat's arse what it is that holds
>> the fire in the belly of your abode, but I'm guessin'
>> it's either a Lennox or a Trane.
>
>Nope, mere technological fixes for when the great heat engine fails......and
>it hasn't yet.....and never will, while breath remains :)
>
>Wolfgang
>
>
Adenosine triphosphate ?

g.c.
Charlie Wilson
2003-11-24 17:13:00 UTC
Permalink
"Wolfgang" wrote:

> Wanna know what keeps me warm?

Climbing into the carcass of a freshly killed horse?
Guyz-N-Flyz
2003-11-24 21:31:20 UTC
Permalink
"Charlie Wilson" <***@pantiespeakpeak.com> wrote in message
news:***@news.peakpeak.com...
>
> "Wolfgang" wrote:
>
> > Wanna know what keeps me warm?
>
> Climbing into the carcass of a freshly killed horse?

Was this horse sick, have a broken leg, or did we just kill it for the hell
of it?

Op --I did see a documentary once where a guy gutted his sled dog to keep
his hands from freezin'.--
slenon
2003-11-24 21:40:29 UTC
Permalink
>"Wolfgang" wrote:

> Wanna know what keeps me warm?

I'd have guessed the same thing that causes you to wear glasses. But, I
like the barnyard animal theory too.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar
***@tampabay.rr.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm
Wayne Harrison
2003-11-24 22:02:34 UTC
Permalink
"slenon" <***@tampabay.rr.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:hVuwb.3$***@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >"Wolfgang" wrote:
>
> > Wanna know what keeps me warm?
>
> I'd have guessed the same thing that causes you to wear glasses. But, I
> like the barnyard animal theory too.
>


actually, because i have determined that, whether he would admit it or
not, wolfgang is a closet minimalist, my take on this totally consuming
conundrum is as follows: there were only two "right" answers; either "yes",
or "no". having received the initial, fundamental "answer", he would then
be able to elucidate in detail regarding the details of the second level of
information.

yfitons
wayno (i could be wrong. i was, once, long ago, in a galaxy, far away.)
Willi
2003-11-25 01:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Wayne Harrison wrote:

> "slenon" <***@tampabay.rr.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:hVuwb.3$***@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
>>>"Wolfgang" wrote:
>>
>>>Wanna know what keeps me warm?
>>
>>I'd have guessed the same thing that causes you to wear glasses. But, I
>>like the barnyard animal theory too.
>>
>
>
>
> actually, because i have determined that, whether he would admit it or
> not, wolfgang is a closet minimalist,


Well he must be DEEP in that closet!

Willi
***@frii.com
slenon
2003-11-24 22:46:29 UTC
Permalink
> actually, because i have determined that, whether he would admit it or
>not, wolfgang is a closet minimalist, my take on this totally consuming
>conundrum is as follows: there were only two "right" answers; either
"yes",
>or "no". having received the initial, fundamental "answer", he would then
>be able to elucidate in detail regarding the details of the second level of
>information.

>yfitons
>wayno (i could be wrong. i was, once, long ago, in a galaxy, far away.)

I recall studying that disease in a class on the sociology of deviant
behaviors.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69

I also passed through that galaxy, whilst passing stellar gases
Willi
2003-11-24 01:31:38 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang wrote:


>
>>>but when you call someone else
>>>
>>>>pompous ............
>>>
>>>
>>>what?
>>
>>Here we are right where we started!!!
>>Kettle - Black
>
>
> And you thought this was going......where, exactly?

I guess just where I originally wanted it, me commenting on the humor in
a "pompous ass" calling someone else a "pompous ass."

Willi
***@frii.com
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 01:33:51 UTC
Permalink
"Willi" <***@frii.com> wrote in message
news:3fc15f72$0$194$***@news.frii.net...
>
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
>
>
> >
> >>>but when you call someone else
> >>>
> >>>>pompous ............
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>what?
> >>
> >>Here we are right where we started!!!
> >>Kettle - Black
> >
> >
> > And you thought this was going......where, exactly?
>
> I guess just where I originally wanted it, me commenting on the humor in
> a "pompous ass" calling someone else a "pompous ass."

Agreed, that WOULD be funny! :)

Wolfgang
thus demonstrating that reasonable and careful readers can ALWAYS find
common ground.
Dan
2003-11-24 04:05:59 UTC
Permalink
--
"In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the
sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."

- Idi Dada Amin

"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of
Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in
midstream. .and would have incurred incalculable human and political
costs. .We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect rule
Iraq. .There was no viable 'exit strategy' we could see. .Going in and
occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate,
would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression
that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United
States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile
land. It would have been a dramatically different -- and perhaps barren --
outcome."

- Elected President Bush

"Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote

> Hm.....if that's what you've always felt, then it certainly clears up the
> matter of why so few other thoughts worthy of note manage to force their
way
> into such a busy brain. As to comprehensibility, I remain perplexed about
> what motivates so many people to respond so frequently, and often at great
> length, to things that they neither understand nor, in the cases of some
> folks at least, even bother to read. Moreover, while one can hardly
> disagree with the central tenet of the proposition that writing things
one's
> audience can understand is a good thing, endless repetitions of
self-evident
> truths like "Grass is green" will lose both they're value and they're
> interest to a more or less regular audience......sooner or later. Now, I
> realize that some of the above may seem a bit harsh.....or at least
> indifferent....but I really do sympathize with your plight. If you will
be
> so kind as to point out exactly which parts of my response to Steve you
are
> having trouble with, I'll see what I can do to clarify for you.

Good god, you ARE a pompous ass, aren't you!

Dan
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 04:26:26 UTC
Permalink
"Dan" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> --
> "In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the
> sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."
>
> - Idi Dada Amin
>
> "Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation
of
> Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in
> midstream. .and would have incurred incalculable human and political
> costs. .We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect rule
> Iraq. .There was no viable 'exit strategy' we could see. .Going in and
> occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate,
> would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression
> that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United
> States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile
> land. It would have been a dramatically different -- and perhaps
barren --
> outcome."
>
> - Elected President Bush
>
> "Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote
>
> > Hm.....if that's what you've always felt, then it certainly clears up
the
> > matter of why so few other thoughts worthy of note manage to force their
> way
> > into such a busy brain. As to comprehensibility, I remain perplexed
about
> > what motivates so many people to respond so frequently, and often at
great
> > length, to things that they neither understand nor, in the cases of some
> > folks at least, even bother to read. Moreover, while one can hardly
> > disagree with the central tenet of the proposition that writing things
> one's
> > audience can understand is a good thing, endless repetitions of
> self-evident
> > truths like "Grass is green" will lose both they're value and they're
> > interest to a more or less regular audience......sooner or later. Now,
I
> > realize that some of the above may seem a bit harsh.....or at least
> > indifferent....but I really do sympathize with your plight. If you will
> be
> > so kind as to point out exactly which parts of my response to Steve you
> are
> > having trouble with, I'll see what I can do to clarify for you.
>
> Good god, you ARE a pompous ass, aren't you!
>
> Dan

Well, I gotta admit it certainly looks that way. What's more, it has for a
long time now. It worries me some. I mean, people like you.....people
comfortable in the assurance that they are productive members of society and
thoughtful and respected contributors to one or another newsgroup full of
similarly endowed level-headed adults don't know what it's like for someone
like me who routinely shakes his head in rueful dismay at some piece of
dreadful crap he reads here and then, to his horror, discovers his name at
the bottom of it. :(

Wolfgang
who is forced to seek succor in the meager consolation of knowing who said
what to whom at which point in a thread.......mmm......could be worse, i
s'pose.
Dan
2003-11-25 00:06:01 UTC
Permalink
--
"In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the
sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."

- Idi Dada Amin

"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of
Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in
midstream. .and would have incurred incalculable human and political
costs. .We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect rule
Iraq. .There was no viable 'exit strategy' we could see. .Going in and
occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate,
would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression
that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United
States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile
land. It would have been a dramatically different -- and perhaps barren --
outcome."

- Elected President Bush

"Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote in message
news:bps1d9$1qrolr$***@ID-205717.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Dan" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:***@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >
> > --
> > "In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the
> > sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."
> >
> > - Idi Dada Amin
> >
> > "Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation
> of
> > Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in
> > midstream. .and would have incurred incalculable human and political
> > costs. .We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect rule
> > Iraq. .There was no viable 'exit strategy' we could see. .Going in and
> > occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate,
> > would have destroyed the precedent of international response to
aggression
> > that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United
> > States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly
hostile
> > land. It would have been a dramatically different -- and perhaps
> barren --
> > outcome."
> >
> > - Elected President Bush
> >
> > "Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote
> >
> > > Hm.....if that's what you've always felt, then it certainly clears up
> the
> > > matter of why so few other thoughts worthy of note manage to force
their
> > way
> > > into such a busy brain. As to comprehensibility, I remain perplexed
> about
> > > what motivates so many people to respond so frequently, and often at
> great
> > > length, to things that they neither understand nor, in the cases of
some
> > > folks at least, even bother to read. Moreover, while one can hardly
> > > disagree with the central tenet of the proposition that writing things
> > one's
> > > audience can understand is a good thing, endless repetitions of
> > self-evident
> > > truths like "Grass is green" will lose both they're value and they're
> > > interest to a more or less regular audience......sooner or later.
Now,
> I
> > > realize that some of the above may seem a bit harsh.....or at least
> > > indifferent....but I really do sympathize with your plight. If you
will
> > be
> > > so kind as to point out exactly which parts of my response to Steve
you
> > are
> > > having trouble with, I'll see what I can do to clarify for you.
> >
> > Good god, you ARE a pompous ass, aren't you!
> >
> > Dan
>
> Well, I gotta admit it certainly looks that way. What's more, it has for
a
> long time now. It worries me some. I mean, people like you.....people
> comfortable in the assurance that they are productive members of society
and
> thoughtful and respected contributors to one or another newsgroup full of
> similarly endowed level-headed adults don't know what it's like for
someone
> like me who routinely shakes his head in rueful dismay at some piece of
> dreadful crap he reads here and then, to his horror, discovers his name at
> the bottom of it. :(
>
> Wolfgang
> who is forced to seek succor in the meager consolation of knowing who said
> what to whom at which point in a thread.......mmm......could be worse, i
> s'pose.

I apologize if I misattributed. Let me rephrase: whoever wrote that is a
pompous ass.

Dan
Wolfgang
2003-11-25 00:43:32 UTC
Permalink
"Dan" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I apologize if I misattributed. Let me rephrase: whoever wrote that is a
> pompous ass.
>
> Dan


Haldane, as is doubtless obvious to all by now, got it completely
wrong....it had nothing to do with the coleoptera at all. It was "an
inordinate fondness for FOOLS".

Wolfgang
George Cleveland
2003-11-25 00:52:14 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:43:32 -0600, "Wolfgang" <***@mcw.edu> wrote:

>
>"Dan" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:***@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> I apologize if I misattributed. Let me rephrase: whoever wrote that is a
>> pompous ass.
>>
>> Dan
>
>
>Haldane, as is doubtless obvious to all by now, got it completely
>wrong....it had nothing to do with the coleoptera at all. It was "an
>inordinate fondness for FOOLS".
>
>Wolfgang
>
>
Mmmmm...Haldane...smooth creamy Haldane.


g.c.

Wasn't he the fifth Beatle?
Guyz-N-Flyz
2003-11-25 00:49:17 UTC
Permalink
"George Cleveland" <***@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:***@news.cis.dfn.de...
> >Haldane, as is doubtless obvious to all by now, got it completely
> >wrong....it had nothing to do with the coleoptera at all. It was "an
> >inordinate fondness for FOOLS".
> >
> >Wolfgang
> >
> >
> Mmmmm...Haldane...smooth creamy Haldane.
>
>
> g.c.
>
> Wasn't he the fifth Beatle?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Haldane&btnG=Goog
le+Search

Op --??????--
George Cleveland
2003-11-25 01:59:52 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:49:17 -0500, "Guyz-N-Flyz" <***@gwbush.com>
wrote:

>
>"George Cleveland" <***@email.msn.com> wrote in message
>news:***@news.cis.dfn.de...
>> >Haldane, as is doubtless obvious to all by now, got it completely
>> >wrong....it had nothing to do with the coleoptera at all. It was "an
>> >inordinate fondness for FOOLS".
>> >
>> >Wolfgang
>> >
>> >
>> Mmmmm...Haldane...smooth creamy Haldane.
>>
>>
>> g.c.
>>
>> Wasn't he the fifth Beatle?
>
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Haldane&btnG=Goog
>le+Search
>
>Op --??????--
>
>
"The staggering diversity of beetle species has been immortalized in a
famous story. For most of the 19th and early 20th century, many people
believed in "Natural Theology," that is, you could learn to understand the
mind of God by studying life on earth. A bishop asked a famous British
biologist, J. B. S. Haldane, what he had learned of the Creator after a
lifetime of research. Haldane remarked "he had an inordinate fondness for
beetles."


From;
http://www.curator.org/LegacyVMNH/WebOfLife/Kingdom/P_Arthropoda/ClassInsects/OrderColeoptera/Beetles.htm

hth

g.c.
rw
2003-11-25 02:17:56 UTC
Permalink
George Cleveland wrote:
>
> "The staggering diversity of beetle species has been immortalized in a
> famous story. For most of the 19th and early 20th century, many people
> believed in "Natural Theology," that is, you could learn to understand the
> mind of God by studying life on earth. A bishop asked a famous British
> biologist, J. B. S. Haldane, what he had learned of the Creator after a
> lifetime of research. Haldane remarked "he had an inordinate fondness for
> beetles."

The story is apt, but with little doubt it's apocryphal


--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
Scott Seidman
2003-11-21 22:51:19 UTC
Permalink
rw <***@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:xgwvb.10019$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> Scott Seidman wrote:
>>
>> Do you remember the Peter Seller's movie "Being There"? This is an
>> "... and all grows well in the garden" moment!
>
> "Being There" isn't primarily a "Peter Sellers" movie. It's a Jerzy
> Kosinski novel. Let's give credit where it's due. Why does an actor in
> a movie usurp the credit for an original work of art, no matter how
> well cast the derivative work was?
>
> Kosinski (a suicide) seems largely forgotten, but he was an
> imaginative, original novelist. The Painted Bird is his best, IMO.
>

Sometimes the actors deserve the credit. Clearly Sellers didn't write
any of his roles, but he was excellent in many of them. We'll see how
well the Pink Panther holds up without him, as I've just heard Steve
Martin will be playing Cleuseau (sp?) in a brand new prequel. I thought
Sellers was particulary masterful in Being There, but I confess I haven't
read Kosinski, nor in fact, exerted any effort toward finding out what
motivated the movie. My reference is that of a great movie, and it
stands alone. Sometimes great books are made into lousy movies. Does the
author of the book should take credit or blame for that as well?? Should
Herbert lay down his pen because of Dune?

Sometimes the movie is much better than the book, or at least more
famous. Think "Jaws" here. Sometimes, both the book and the movie are
works of art. "A Clockwork Orange" comes to mind here. I think the
movie edges out the book ever so slightly because the movie doesn't come
with a silly-ass glossary, thus we can't look up the Nadsat, just like
Burgess (a linguist, in fact) intended. Probably the earliest editions
were published as intended, though.

Another case, out of many, where both the book and the movie deserve
their kudos is Cuckoo's Nest. The book is excellent, and I think
Nicholson and his supporting cast are more memorable for me.

Scott
Frank Looper
2003-11-21 23:17:36 UTC
Permalink
"Scott Seidman" <***@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> Sometimes great books are made into lousy movies. Does the
> author of the book should take credit or blame for that as well?? Should
> Herbert lay down his pen because of Dune?

If he hasn't by now, it's probably pretty well locked into place. :-)

Frank
rw
2003-11-22 00:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Scott Seidman wrote:
>
> Sometimes the movie is much better than the book, or at least more
> famous.

Not in this case. The movie was merely faithful to the book. The entire
concept was Kosinski's. Sellers was just an actor who did a good job in
a not particularly demanding role.

It's like calling The Grapes of Wrath a Henry Fonda movie.

I realize that many more people saw the movie than read the book, of
course, and I don't mean to criticize you, Scott. It's a tribute to
Kosinski, I suppose, that his story was so memorable. Still, it seems
unfair.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
kyle
2003-11-24 03:33:56 UTC
Permalink
Are claves full of tension, or does this stuff just become friendly
fun after a day of fishing and a few drinks? I'm already totally
turned off by one the experts, but he (wayne in va) seems humorless
and stupid compared to you other guys (and I'm willing to chalk that
up to a oil and water situation between him and me). I guess the on
stream time could be full of tension, too. I'm really interested in
attending one of these events, I could learn a shitload just by
watching people fish, and that's what I'd spend a good percentage of
my time doing, but right now I'm picturing a lot of scary cabin drama.
I'd hate to attend the Penn's clave next year and then spend all my
time scurrying off to nearby wild brookie streams and camping out on
my own. Another question: is there a minimum age requirement for
attending a clave? And do you have to drink shitty beer?
rw
2003-11-24 03:50:39 UTC
Permalink
kyle wrote:
> Are claves full of tension, or does this stuff just become friendly
> fun after a day of fishing and a few drinks? I'm already totally
> turned off by one the experts, but he (wayne in va) seems humorless
> and stupid compared to you other guys (and I'm willing to chalk that
> up to a oil and water situation between him and me). I guess the on
> stream time could be full of tension, too. I'm really interested in
> attending one of these events, I could learn a shitload just by
> watching people fish, and that's what I'd spend a good percentage of
> my time doing, but right now I'm picturing a lot of scary cabin drama.
> I'd hate to attend the Penn's clave next year and then spend all my
> time scurrying off to nearby wild brookie streams and camping out on
> my own. Another question: is there a minimum age requirement for
> attending a clave? And do you have to drink shitty beer?

Ha, ha, ha! Freaking hilarious.

Wayne Hart is one scary MF, though, so I see your point.

But no, you don't have to drink shitty beer when you attend a clave.
Come to the next Western Clave and follow the real experts around. You
will be amazed. I can assure you that there will be some very good beer
on the scene, including homebrews.

No minimum age requirement, or any other requirements for that matter.
Just make sure you're rigged up and ready to fish at the crack of dawn.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
Tim J.
2003-11-24 03:54:14 UTC
Permalink
"kyle" wrote...
> Are claves full of tension, or does this stuff just become friendly
> fun after a day of fishing and a few drinks?

When you see roffians face-to-face, you'll know what tension can be. Scary lot,
these roffians.

> I'm already totally
> turned off by one the experts, but he (wayne in va) seems humorless
> and stupid compared to you other guys (and I'm willing to chalk that
> up to a oil and water situation between him and me).

Expert what?

> I guess the on
> stream time could be full of tension, too. I'm really interested in
> attending one of these events, I could learn a shitload just by
> watching people fish, and that's what I'd spend a good percentage of
> my time doing, but right now I'm picturing a lot of scary cabin drama.

Picture away, but the drama ain't in the cabin. The real drama is watching the
anticipation (so I've been told) on the faces of those nominated for the Reid
Duck Butt Award.

> I'd hate to attend the Penn's clave next year and then spend all my
> time scurrying off to nearby wild brookie streams and camping out on
> my own.

Oh, they'll find you, my friend. They got them GPS thingies and everything.

> Another question: is there a minimum age requirement for
> attending a clave?

There's no age requirement, but there is a height requirement for some of the
more scary rides.

> And do you have to drink shitty beer?

That's only when visiting Urbana.
--
HTH,
Tim
Seriously, just shut up and get yer ass to the clave.
(Hell, I gotta try and follow my own advice this year.)
http://css.sbcma.com/timj
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 03:54:57 UTC
Permalink
"kyle" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:***@posting.google.com...
> Are claves full of tension, or does this stuff just become friendly
> fun after a day of fishing and a few drinks?

Yes, but it tends to be of a different order than the jovial highjinks you
find here. At Penn's, for instance, you will find yourself wondering
whether Frank will once again bob to the surface or you will, at last, get
to try out the new grappling hook. In North Carolina you will muse long and
hard over whether it's the bears, the rhodos, or the trails that will
ultimately kill you.......um.....or the drivers......or acute ethanol
toxicity.....or......well, I hate to spoil the surprise.

> I'm already totally
> turned off by one the experts, but he (wayne in va) seems humorless
> and stupid compared to you other guys (and I'm willing to chalk that
> up to a oil and water situation between him and me).

Hart is crazy.....pay no attention to him.

> I guess the on
> stream time could be full of tension, too.

If you are referring to the tension caused by a fish on the end of your
line, there are many who will go out of their way to make it happen.

> I'm really interested in
> attending one of these events, I could learn a shitload just by
> watching people fish, and that's what I'd spend a good percentage of
> my time doing,

Bearing in mind, of course, that a shitload can include as many things that
one should not do as things that one should.

> but right now I'm picturing a lot of scary cabin drama.

Well, yes, the rumors concerning Wayno's ass in a dark room are all too
true. :(

> I'd hate to attend the Penn's clave next year and then spend all my
> time scurrying off to nearby wild brookie streams

Well, that IS sort of the point, don'tcha know.

> and camping out on
> my own.

Um......that's really less a matter of tension than it is of a concern for
personal hygiene and other such niceties.

>Another question: is there a minimum age requirement for
> attending a clave?

Hm.......oddly enough, the question has never arisen before. Well, I
suppose it's a matter for the rules committee. Unfortunately, the committee
was liquidated (metaphorically speaking, of course) some time ago for
reasons no one remembers......or cared much about at the time, for that
matter. On the bright side, since everyone attending a clave must serve on
at least one committee, you can form a new rules committee and then answer
your own question......as well as tell everyone else what they must and must
not do. No one will pay you the least bit of attention, but hey, that's
what committees are for! :)

>And do you have to drink shitty beer?

If Forty is attending, the question is moot.

Wolfgang
c***@tiny.net.invalid
2003-11-24 05:05:32 UTC
Permalink
On 23 Nov 2003 19:33:56 -0800, ***@yahoo.com (kyle) wrote:


Caveat: I've never attended Penn's and have only attended two Claves.

>Are claves full of tension, or does this stuff just become friendly
>fun after a day of fishing and a few drinks?

They do weird stuff like fish all day or drive to different spots to
fish. They tend to be sleepy at night.

Much more time spent fishing, talking about fishing, and where they'll
fish the next day than trading barbed quips.

>I'm already totally
>turned off by one the experts, but he (wayne in va) seems humorless
>and stupid compared to you other guys (and I'm willing to chalk that
>up to a oil and water situation between him and me). I guess the on
>stream time could be full of tension, too.

No. Even if they think you're weird or stupid about fishing, they're
pretty decent folks.

>I'm really interested in
>attending one of these events, I could learn a shitload just by
>watching people fish, and that's what I'd spend a good percentage of
>my time doing, but right now I'm picturing a lot of scary cabin drama.

Cabins are generally filled up, so you'd be tenting or whatever.
Penn's seems to have cabin visiting privileges, though. My limited
experience of claves has no scary drama. At least of the
interpersonal sort. I believe the nastiest comments in print
afterward involve sounds of snoring and possible scents released
during sleep.

> I'd hate to attend the Penn's clave next year and then spend all my
>time scurrying off to nearby wild brookie streams

Gee, that sounds awful. Just awful. I may have to put up with that
dreadful fate in '05, which is about the soonest I can do a Penn's
Clave. Oh, poor pitiful me. Streams full of wild or native brookies.
Oh, darn.

>and camping out on
>my own.

Penn's generally has a campground or two where the non-cabin people
tent or caravan. I get the impression they even talk to each other
and visit back and forth between tents or gather at one.

> Another question: is there a minimum age requirement for
>attending a clave?

Old enough to drive yourself or con someone else into driving you.


> And do you have to drink shitty beer?

I've not attended Penn's, but I've not been overly encouraged to drink
any kind of beer, either. Some very nice rose' wine at one, though. I
understand there are varying opinions on Scotch Whisky, but as a Jack
Daniels drinker, I'd be left out of those discussions.

--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
Tom Littleton
2003-11-24 11:54:24 UTC
Permalink
kyle worries:
>Are claves full of tension, or does this stuff just become friendly
>fun after a day of fishing and a few drinks?

no, and yes, if it is remembered at all.

>I'm already totally
>turned off by one the experts, but he (wayne in va) seems humorless
>and stupid compared to you other guys

since when is Wayne an "expert" <bseg>?


>right now I'm picturing a lot of scary cabin drama.

only after the barley stew is that an issue.

>I'd hate to attend the Penn's clave next year and then spend all my
>time scurrying off to nearby wild brookie streams and camping out on
>my own.

It will not happen if you don't wish it too....see above comment about barley
stew relative to camping alone.

>Another question: is there a minimum age requirement for
>attending a clave?

not to my knowledge, but you have to be at least 21 to learn the secret
handshake from Walt.

>And do you have to drink shitty beer?

not if you bring good beer

Penns Clavemeister,
at your service.....Tom
Willi
2003-11-25 15:33:55 UTC
Permalink
kyle wrote:

> Are claves full of tension, or does this stuff just become friendly
> fun after a day of fishing and a few drinks? I'm already totally
> turned off by one the experts, but he (wayne in va) seems humorless
> and stupid compared to you other guys (and I'm willing to chalk that
> up to a oil and water situation between him and me). I guess the on
> stream time could be full of tension, too. I'm really interested in
> attending one of these events, I could learn a shitload just by
> watching people fish, and that's what I'd spend a good percentage of
> my time doing, but right now I'm picturing a lot of scary cabin drama.
> I'd hate to attend the Penn's clave next year and then spend all my
> time scurrying off to nearby wild brookie streams and camping out on
> my own. Another question: is there a minimum age requirement for
> attending a clave? And do you have to drink shitty beer?


Claves are FUN!!

Willi
***@frii.com
Frank Reid
2003-11-25 21:52:40 UTC
Permalink
Don't believe a word these guys have to say. I am able to stay upright most
of the time and the barley stew is only a problem if your cabin or tent is
air tight. These guys are also mostly in bed by 7 p.m. after a minor little
death march. Also, the tent area is the best place to stay. We get pickled
asparagus and a nightly serenade from Smilin' Joe and all the loose women
eventually roll down hill. Hell, the tent area is the closest spot to the
water. The Duck Butt Trophy is another thing. We don't like to talk about
it in mixed company.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply
Volker Hetzer
2003-11-21 22:22:29 UTC
Permalink
"it's no joke,Tuco.It's a rope" <***@netscape.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:***@posting.google.com...
> http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00105.htm
> The following interview was with an enlisted man, but someone very
> high up in the enlisted ranks, with over 20 years of military service.
> I have promised not to reveal his identity for reasons that he has a
> family and has been told not to speak to journalists. He told me the
> Army had put a gag order on him while he was home, and told him they
> would give him twenty years in prison if he spoke out in any manner
> against the US or the government.
>
> I took several weeks to finish this interview because of not being
> able to safely be seen with this individual out of his fears of being
> caught speaking out.
>
> He asked me to call him USA in all the transcripts of these
> interviews. I have followed his wishes and tried to write what he said
> in the manner it was said so as not to lose any impact. At times the
> interview was very rough and the grammar is not perfect, but I tried
> to write this in his voice so that he can tell the world how bad it is
> in Iraq. I truly want you to feel what he has experienced in some way
> if possible.

Great. In this way, none of us can verify that this guy is real whereas,
in case he is, his superiors can from the vacation records and the language
used guess pretty much who did it.
Be proud.

Volker
Brian Sniatkowski
2003-11-24 01:52:41 UTC
Permalink
This "soldier" who seems to feel so strongly about what is going on in
Iraq, prefers to remain anonymous? Is he a coward? More likely, he's a a
figment of the imagination of the author.

I know several soldiers who've come home from Iraq and Afghanistan and
their take is quite the opposite. Knowing how so many "journalists"
today get their stories, I'm willing to bet that this guy with "over 20
years in the military service" is the product of the imagination of the
author.

Volker Hetzer wrote:

> "it's no joke,Tuco.It's a rope" <***@netscape.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:***@posting.google.com...
>
>>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00105.htm
>>The following interview was with an enlisted man, but someone very
>>high up in the enlisted ranks, with over 20 years of military service.
>>I have promised not to reveal his identity for reasons that he has a
>>family and has been told not to speak to journalists. He told me the
>>Army had put a gag order on him while he was home, and told him they
>>would give him twenty years in prison if he spoke out in any manner
>>against the US or the government.
>>
>>I took several weeks to finish this interview because of not being
>>able to safely be seen with this individual out of his fears of being
>>caught speaking out.
>>
>>He asked me to call him USA in all the transcripts of these
>>interviews. I have followed his wishes and tried to write what he said
>>in the manner it was said so as not to lose any impact. At times the
>>interview was very rough and the grammar is not perfect, but I tried
>>to write this in his voice so that he can tell the world how bad it is
>>in Iraq. I truly want you to feel what he has experienced in some way
>>if possible.
>
>
> Great. In this way, none of us can verify that this guy is real whereas,
> in case he is, his superiors can from the vacation records and the language
> used guess pretty much who did it.
> Be proud.
>
> Volker
>
Dan
2003-11-24 04:09:28 UTC
Permalink
--
"In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the
sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."

- Idi Dada Amin

"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of
Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in
midstream. .and would have incurred incalculable human and political
costs. .We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect rule
Iraq. .There was no viable 'exit strategy' we could see. .Going in and
occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate,
would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression
that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United
States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile
land. It would have been a dramatically different -- and perhaps barren --
outcome."

- Elected President Bush

"Brian Sniatkowski" <***@att.net> wrote

> Knowing how so many "journalists"
> today get their stories

Yeah, so many of those stories seem to contain stuff like:

* Iraq has WMD
* 45 minute response time
* threat to U. S.
* Saddam is the equivalent of Hitler

You just can't trust the mainstream conservative press these days...

Dan
bones
2003-11-24 14:07:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 20:09:28 -0800, "Dan" <***@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
>--
>"In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the
>sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."
>
>- Idi Dada Amin
>
>"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of
>Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in
>midstream. .and would have incurred incalculable human and political
>costs. .We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect rule
>Iraq. .There was no viable 'exit strategy' we could see. .Going in and
>occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate,
>would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression
>that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United
>States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile
>land. It would have been a dramatically different -- and perhaps barren --
>outcome."
>
>- Elected President Bush
>
>"Brian Sniatkowski" <***@att.net> wrote
>
>> Knowing how so many "journalists"
>> today get their stories
>
>Yeah, so many of those stories seem to contain stuff like:
>
>* Iraq has WMD
>* 45 minute response time
>* threat to U. S.
>* Saddam is the equivalent of Hitler
>
>You just can't trust the mainstream conservative press these days...
>
>Dan
>
..............


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp
Tom Littleton
2003-11-24 14:34:24 UTC
Permalink
Harry,
Let's face it....with the Weekly Standard, the case has been closed since Bush
was elected. This is one of the prime braintrusts behind this idiotic foreign
policy of pre-emption we are currently stuck with.
Hardly an unbiased source, and on this particular story, even the
administration is unwilling to verify it.
Tom
bones
2003-11-24 14:37:05 UTC
Permalink
On 24 Nov 2003 14:34:24 GMT, ***@aol.com (Tom Littleton) wrote:

>Harry,
>Let's face it....with the Weekly Standard, the case has been closed since Bush
>was elected. This is one of the prime braintrusts behind this idiotic foreign
>policy of pre-emption we are currently stuck with.
>Hardly an unbiased source, and on this particular story, even the
>administration is unwilling to verify it.
> Tom
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/24/opinion/24SAFI.html
Tom Littleton
2003-11-24 15:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Harry,
Can't access this one, but I note that it seems to be an "opinion", source
William Safire. A short synopsis?
Tom
Scott Seidman
2003-11-24 16:23:39 UTC
Permalink
***@aol.com (Tom Littleton) wrote in
news:***@mb-m05.aol.com:

> Harry,
> Can't access this one, but I note that it seems to be an "opinion",
> source
> William Safire. A short synopsis?
> Tom

Safire cites two mag articles that claim to demonstrate a decade-long tie
between Hussein and al Qaeda. One of the articles shows "chunks" of a 16-
page letter by Undersec Def Feith.

Scott
Ken Fortenberry
2003-11-24 17:27:47 UTC
Permalink
bones wrote:
> Tom Littleton wrote:
>
>>Harry,
>>Let's face it....with the Weekly Standard, the case has been closed since Bush
>>was elected. This is one of the prime braintrusts behind this idiotic foreign
>>policy of pre-emption we are currently stuck with.
>>Hardly an unbiased source, and on this particular story, even the
>>administration is unwilling to verify it.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/24/opinion/24SAFI.html

The Weekly Standard and Bill Safire ?!? Given all the grief that Shrub
and Company have taken over this illegal and immoral quagmire of an
international relations abortion don't you think they'd have released
this "memo" long before now if it were even remotely unlaughable ?

This whole damn sordid and disgusting episode of regrettable American
history could have been written by Ionesco and you want to quote the
Weekly Standard and Bill Safire ?? Unfuckingbelievable.

Try this instead;

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16813

--
Ken Fortenberry
Bones
2003-11-24 18:11:25 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:27:47 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
<***@ameritech.net.invalid> wrote:

>bones wrote:
>> Tom Littleton wrote:
>>
>>>Harry,
>>>Let's face it....with the Weekly Standard, the case has been closed since Bush
>>>was elected. This is one of the prime braintrusts behind this idiotic foreign
>>>policy of pre-emption we are currently stuck with.
>>>Hardly an unbiased source, and on this particular story, even the
>>>administration is unwilling to verify it.
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/24/opinion/24SAFI.html
>
>The Weekly Standard and Bill Safire ?!? Given all the grief that Shrub
>and Company have taken over this illegal and immoral quagmire of an
>international relations abortion don't you think they'd have released
>this "memo" long before now if it were even remotely unlaughable ?
>
>This whole damn sordid and disgusting episode of regrettable American
>history could have been written by Ionesco and you want to quote the
>Weekly Standard and Bill Safire ?? Unfuckingbelievable.
>
>Try this instead;
>
>http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16813


yup... you hit it....Unfuckingbelievable.
Ken Fortenberry
2003-11-24 20:35:28 UTC
Permalink
Bones wrote:
> Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>> ...
>>Try this instead;
>>
>>http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16813
>
> yup... you hit it....Unfuckingbelievable.

Well, there you have it in a nutshell. Some will give credence to the
Weekly Standard and Bill Safire while others will choose to believe a
Thomas Powers article in The New York Review of Books.

With both links readily available in this thread folks can read both
and assign credence as they see fit. Thanks for posting the Safire and
Weekly Standard links.

--
Ken Fortenberry
bones
2003-11-24 21:06:38 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 20:35:28 GMT, Ken Fortenberry
<***@ameritech.net.invalid> wrote:

>
>Well, there you have it in a nutshell. Some will give credence to the
>Weekly Standard and Bill Safire while others will choose to believe a
>Thomas Powers article in The New York Review of Books.


Christ, you really are astute. For the life of me can't figure why
anyone would call you arrogant... very troubling...
Ken Fortenberry
2003-11-24 21:43:13 UTC
Permalink
bones wrote:
> Ken Fortenberry wrote:
>
>>Well, there you have it in a nutshell. Some will give credence to the
>>Weekly Standard and Bill Safire while others will choose to believe a
>>Thomas Powers article in The New York Review of Books.
>
> Christ, you really are astute. For the life of me can't figure why
> anyone would call you arrogant... very troubling...

Are you saying those who put their faith in the Weekly Standard are
less arrogant than those who would choose to believe an article in
the New York Review of Books ?

If so, methinks an inferiority complex plays no small role. But having
said that, it is doubtless well deserved.

--
Ken Fortenberry
Greg Pavlov
2003-11-24 15:11:19 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:52:41 GMT, Brian Sniatkowski
<***@att.net> wrote:

>I'm willing to bet that this guy with "over 20
>years in the military service" is the product of the imagination of the
>author.


I hear that author does indeed have a wild imagination,
He was working for the administration until about a month
ago.
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 22:57:01 UTC
Permalink
"Tim J." <***@comcast.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:teSdnU0Vnrzc7l-iRVn-***@crocker.com...


> That's it? That's the reason I've been losing sleep the past few days?
Hell, I
> KNEW all that already. The fact that you and rw have a thing for each
other
> hardly qualifies as breaking news. I was sorta hoping there were gonna be
girls
> or barnyard animals (or both) involved. :(

See, THAT'S exactly what I'm talking about! All my life....wherever I've
gone....whatever I've done....I've always been a disappointment. Hm......I
think maybe that should maybe be my epitaph, "He was SUCH a disappointment!.
:( "

Anyway, now you probably won't read the next thing I submit.....hell, you
probably won't even read this one.......but SOMEBODY most certainly will!
:)

Wolfgang
98.8 and rising.
Tim J.
2003-11-25 00:41:01 UTC
Permalink
"Wolfgang" wrote...
> "Tim J." wrote...
>
> > That's it? That's the reason I've been losing sleep the past few days?
> Hell, I
> > KNEW all that already. The fact that you and rw have a thing for each
> other
> > hardly qualifies as breaking news. I was sorta hoping there were gonna be
> girls
> > or barnyard animals (or both) involved. :(
>
> See, THAT'S exactly what I'm talking about! All my life....wherever I've
> gone....whatever I've done....I've always been a disappointment. Hm......I
> think maybe that should maybe be my epitaph, "He was SUCH a disappointment!.
> :( "
>
> Anyway, now you probably won't read the next thing I submit.....hell, you
> probably won't even read this one.......but SOMEBODY most certainly will!
> :)

Yer damn right I won't re. . . oh, well. At least I never claimed I wasn't
reading 'em.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj
Wolfgang
2003-11-24 23:01:19 UTC
Permalink
"slenon" <***@tampabay.rr.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:hVuwb.3$***@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >"Wolfgang" wrote:
>
> > Wanna know what keeps me warm?
>
> I'd have guessed the same thing that causes you to wear glasses.

Nah, if myopia could keep one warm, what passes for your heart would have
burst into fucking flames decades ago.

> But, I like the barnyard animal theory too.

One hesitates to imagine how large barnyard animals must loom in your
liking.

Wolfgang
slenon
2003-11-25 01:23:33 UTC
Permalink
Wolfgang:
>Nah, if myopia could keep one warm, what passes for your heart would have
>burst into fucking flames decades ago.

You have inside knowledge that tells you I wear glasses? As for flaming
hearts, I can suggest a proton pump inhibitor for you.

>One hesitates to imagine how large barnyard animals must loom in your
liking.

Oh! Too bad! You hesitated. Now you'll never know for sure what animal and
how large it may be. I can weave you another image concerning slingshots,
rotten fruit and water buffalo.

--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar
***@tampabay.rr.com
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92kword.htm
Wolfgang
2003-11-25 02:12:56 UTC
Permalink
"Willi" <***@frii.com> wrote in message
news:3fc2b485$0$195$***@news.frii.net...


> The perverse things that bring happiness to some people!
>
> Knock yourself out, Wolfie!
>
> Somehow this strikes me as just too sad.

Well, a life of service is not to everyone's taste......I can respect that.
However, you shouldn't be sad for me; I'm used to it.

Wolfgang
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